Jason VanMeter - The Perspective of a Street Cop

Jason has extensive experience as a police officer on the street – and as such he’s had to deal with all manner of human behavior issues – criminal and otherwise, as you might expect. I invited him on the show specifically today to talk about issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness, and homelessness – from the perspective of a street cop. It’s a perspective that, as ordinary citizens, we rarely hear. I’m confident you’re going to find what he has to say absolutely fascinating. 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Unknown: 0:07

probably 95% of my work day was with the homeless of the unsheltered in downtown Salem. And it seemed to me like it was a bad business model to keep on reinforcing failure and arresting the same person over and over and over again, which led me to have a meeting with the Legislative Director of the ACLU, ACLU, who I asked the question, how can we do things better? What are we missing in law enforcement? And is there another model that would be more effective than just arresting them, putting them in jail, and then they're out within 2030 minutes to keep doing the same crimes.

Narrator: 0:46

Welcome to cascade views a discussion with Central Oregon leaders. Your host is Michael SIPE, local business and community leader Best Selling Author of the Avada principle in candidate for Oregon State Representative for House District 53, which encompasses southern Redmon, sisters, tombolo, and Northern bend. The purpose of these discussions is to share the views and insights of local leaders from a variety of community sectors on a range of timely and important regional and state issues. With that, now, here's your host, Michael SIPE.

Michael Sipe: 1:21

Thanks for joining us on cascade views. My name is Michael SIPE, and I'll be your host today. My guest is Jason Van Meter, the chief of police at Black Butte ranch. Jason has extensive experience as a police officer on the street. And as such, he's had to deal with all manner of human behavior issues, criminal and otherwise, as you might expect, I invited him on the show specifically today to talk about issues such as drug and alcohol abuse, mental illness and homelessness. From the perspective of a street cop. It's a perspective that as ordinary citizens we rarely hear, and I'm confident you're gonna find what he has to say. Absolutely fascinating. So I'll let him tell his story as he can do it so much better than I. Jason, welcome to the show.

Unknown: 2:08

Thanks, Mike, for having me. I really appreciate it.

Michael Sipe: 2:11

You bet to lay a foundation for our discussion. I'm first like you to share just a little bit of your background. Maybe start with your military service. First of all, thank you for serving. But can you just fill us in on a little bit of that, please?

Unknown: 2:24

Yeah, thank you, and thank you for your service as well. Rangers lead the way. I enlisted in the United States Navy in 1996. After college, went to Western Oregon University, then West Oregon State College. I was a Navy corpsman. And as a Navy corpsman were like the paramedics that run around with the Marine infantry types. I was stationed with First Battalion seventh Marines suicide Charlie as a corpsman. And from there I got commissioned in the Marine Corps, and was commissioned in 1998 as a second lieutenant, became a 302 infantry officer and went back out to Twentynine Palms to Second Battalion, seventh Marines. There I stayed until about 2005 When I got out to be a police officer in Salem, Oregon. After about six, seven months of being a police officer in Salem, I missed the Marine Corps and became a Marine Corps reservists, sixth engineer Support Battalion in Portland, Oregon. And as a reservist, I deployed three times, Africa, Iraq, and to Afghanistan twice. As an infantryman, I've retired 19 or 2018. So I'm completely out of the Marine Corps. And, as you said, prior was with the Salem Police Department, and I came here to Black Butte in June. Well,

Michael Sipe: 3:55

let's go back a second. And what led you to into law enforcement after a distinguished and very diverse military career? How did you happen to step into law enforcement?

Unknown: 4:07

Yeah, I think the first first law enforcement uniform I put on was, I was 16 months old, and when my dad retired, graduated from the Oregon State Police Trooper Academy. And so from a young age, it's just been in the family and it's what I've been wanting to do my entire life from the time I was 16 months old to Now I love this job.

Michael Sipe: 4:30

So just give us like, what did what is the career of a police officer look like? Like, just I mean, the kind of the short version, but I actually don't know that. I know how it progresses like, how do you how do you get started and what do you have to learn? And then how do you move through the process to get to be a police chief?

Unknown: 4:51

In Salem, you learn fast and so Salem is a very busy city and it always has been a very busy city. I started out in patrol I was patrol my entire career from 2005 to just this last year, when I got hired with Black Butte, and from, you do a field training evaluation program and F tech program, and so you ride around with a coach, sometimes before the academy, then you go to the police academy. And then after the police academy, you have several months of F tap training. And eventually you get your own police car and start riding around solo, but you're still on probation for 18 months. And then after 18 months, you're a a career officer. And then from there, you can have a variety of different assignments and my path and my, my desire has always been to work in the police car and on the streets. And that's where I stayed my entire career.

Michael Sipe: 5:48

You have some kind of special training, though, don't you in terms of, of behavioral health, and, you know, maybe a little different specialty than the average guy on the street, right?

Unknown: 6:00

Yeah, I so when when I got back from Afghanistan, my first trip, I was promoted to sergeant. And as a sergeant, I was put in charge of the downtown enforcement team in Salem, and the downtown enforcement team in Salem, were the bicycle cops. And probably 95% of my work day was with the homeless and the unsheltered in downtown Salem. And it seemed to me like it was a bad business model to keep on reinforcing failure, and arresting the same person over and over and over again, which led me to have a meeting with the Legislative Director of the ACLU, ACLU, who I asked the question, how can we do things better? What are we missing in law enforcement? And is there another model that would be more effective than just arresting them, putting them in jail, and then they're out within 2030 minutes to keep doing the same crimes. And that led me to the Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion Program, which was a Seattle Washington model, studying that and getting the DHS office on board. The DHS office was obviously the ones that were that the district attorney. Now, page, Clarkson, she was the DDA that was in charge of this program. And she's the one that got it off the ground and got it going in Marion County. And it's been an incredibly rewarding and successful program. And from there, there's there's a lot of data points that we can analyze out of the Marin County LEED program.

Michael Sipe: 7:32

So that brings us really to the crux of the discussion. When you and I were having lunch a couple weeks ago, in sisters, you were sharing some really interesting insights into the unhoused into drug and alcohol abuse and, and mental health. From a from a gritty practical level. Can Can you give us a glimpse into what's really going on on the street?

Unknown: 7:57

Sure. And after after I was a supervisor with the downtown enforcement team was the supervisor of the first supervisor for the behavioral health unit in Marion County. And so it was a multidisciplinary team. In the police car, we had qualified mental health professionals that are riding around with crisis intervention team trained CIT trained police officers. And so we went to mental health calls almost exclusively throughout our shift. And there was Polk County deputies, Marion County, deputies, Salem police officers and Woodburn police officers that participated in this behavioral health unit. And so between the downtown enforcement team and the behavioral health unit, I was really I became passionate about behavioral health, mental health addiction, and then how we can have long term success with people who are living on the streets and getting them to a point in their lives where they can be their best self. Well,

Michael Sipe: 9:01

that kind of triggers a question for me what what are some of the myths and misconceptions that you see maybe that the people have about this situation? You know how, like, I wouldn't have expected you to go immediately to the, to a desire for for the folks you're working with to be their highest and best self. I mean, what what are some things that we don't know that we ought to know about? The folks that you were working with?

Unknown: 9:25

Yeah, that's a that's a great question. And these are, these are questions that we can talk for hours about and I do when I when I talk about this topic, homeless and mental health in general law enforcement response to the unsheltered in mental health issues. I do like to point out that I like to talk about processes and policies and not the people, the people that are involved in nonprofits, churches, that want to care for the unsheltered are some of the best humans on Earth. And so nothing I say should be an indictment as to their lack of caring or their lack of want to get people off the streets. policies become landscapes. And that's what I was when I was walking around Dallas, Texas this last weekend, it struck me how much better their landscape was than our landscape. And so our policies have become landscapes that are filled with garbage hypodermic needles, I actually saw parks that had kids playing in them. And I was taken back and I was taken back that I was taken back, and there's a park with kids. And I was surprised by that. So there's a tremendous amount of barriers that are in the way of organizations, there's barriers that are in the way of the individual people that are suffering from addiction and mental health issues. And so it's important upon us to understand that many of them will not be in house with a partner or hold down a full time job, you know, and paying the bills, currently, so one of the the actual physical impacts of being unsheltered on the street and being addicted, is methamphetamine. And it's the most common drug that is on the streets here in Oregon. And the methamphetamines being made differently, it's being made with a perk precursor called p2p. And so it's creating more of a permanent damage quicker to the neurological capabilities of the people. So they're, they're never going to be able to recover from it. It's as if they have an amputated limb. So with that, how do we make the systems more accessible to somebody who has that level of disability? And not just let them squalor in their, in their own in filth? And how can we step in and help them from a community perspective and from a just a human compassion perspective? That's

Michael Sipe: 11:45

just out of curiosity. So you were in Dallas, and then you were walking around? I think you told me that, that you saw in that huge city, like its enormous, it may be one of the biggest cities in in the US. But you only you only saw four camps and and you weren't a cost it and you saw kids playing freely in the playground? Like just speculating, what do you think they're doing different?

Unknown: 12:10

We had my wife and I had a lot of conversation about that. And you know, that kind of stirred up that that idea that policies create landscapes, and we elect the people to create the policies. And if we don't like the landscape, then then we have to pick those at the end like those that will create the landscapes that we desire. And so Texas doesn't have ballot measure 110 They have not legalized hard drugs, they have much more spending on behavioral health, they have much more spending on addiction, their law enforcement is empowered to take people off the streets who are intoxicated with public intoxication laws. And so there's still law and order and it's respected, the people in Dallas are incredibly friendly. And if you asked them to do something they I can see as a police officer, they would because I had people who are unsheltered holding the door for me and they were just smiling and it was just a great experience for me to go from being around Salem and Portland type environment on the streets to, to Dallas to see that it actually can happen and actually can be done.

Michael Sipe: 13:25

When in contrast, you know, we we live kind of in a bubble here is it's not a not a pretty bubble. But you know, some of the things that we just unfortunately take for granted are are not the the way it is in other cities I was in, in Nashville over Christmas and same experience you had and I was it was surreal to grow from flying out of Portland to Nashville. What a difference. Well, you mentioned something a minute ago about measure 110. So tell us a little bit about measure 110. And in what impact that's actually having.

Unknown: 14:02

Sure, no loved it. ballot measure 110 It was approved by the voters November of 2020. It reduces drug offenses, possession quantities of heroin and methamphetamine to a violation which is $100 ticket. So it's much more expensive to run a red light than it is to be in possession of methamphetamine or heroin. And so this was a a marketing success for a firm out of New York. It's not even an Oregon firm that was wanting this ballot measure to go through and they spent several million dollars to get this campaign through to the Oregon voters and we voted for it and we it passed. It passed in and since then, we've been writing drug violation tickets for for hard drugs.

Michael Sipe: 15:00

So, do you think that the, well, let's flesh it out just a little bit more? So, so measure 110? As I understand it, and then there was a, you know, a bill that codified it. But yeah, measure 110, as I understand it was the idea was that, that we as a state wanted to wanted to treat people with addiction issues rather than imprison them. And, you know, probably not probably not a bad plan, you know, probably We'd rather see people get healed and and well, if possible, or cared for, rather than then put them in prison? I don't know if you agree with that. But I think I think probably most of our listeners would say, well, it's that kind of sounds like a good, good plan. But like, where did it go wrong? Because it sure seems like it's going wrong.

Unknown: 15:49

Correct. So where it went wrong, there's there's a few things that there's a few items that went wrong. One, we oftentimes people will talk about the Portugal model who also decriminalized hard drugs. And what that country did with the countries that have legalized hard drugs. They've built an infrastructure prior to the legalization. Oregon didn't do that. It said that you call this hotline, and your $100 ticket will go away. I've personally been issuing citations where people have said, well, I'll just I'd rather pay the 100 bucks. So since since the bill has become a law, or the ballot measure has become law, there's been 101,826 cases filed through the 36 different counties in Oregon, of that only 55 People have called that hotline to get that citation reduced. Everybody else is either filling it failure, failing to appear for the citation, or just paying the$100. And so it was it was a good experiment. It was it was heartfelt. It was a good idea. But it's been an unmitigated disaster for law enforcement and for people who are in addiction services that rely quite heavily on probation officers to get them and compel them to treatment, to get them sober to get them off the hard drugs. What felt major 110 that is, that is just it's not what happened. It's not what is it was going on on the streets. And it's like I say, it's just an unmitigated disaster.

Michael Sipe: 17:24

So do you find that increasing? The mean, is that increasing the the homeless problems and the addiction problems? Or are they just more visible? Or, you know, like, how, what's the impact?

Unknown: 17:39

And the impact has been, for people on the streets that I've talked to in Salem, primarily, where I work. Now, there are some some camps out in forest service areas, but they're, for the most part coming from out of state. And I've talked to people as far away from Oregon as Louisiana. And I asked him, How did you get to Oregon? And why did you come here, and they'll be, they'll be honest, and like, we we will cut, we came here because we will not be harassed for our addiction. And we can have our drugs, and we won't be bothered by the police. And we know if we are stopped is going to be $100 citation. And with drugs and working with the addicted, it's they're not rational actors, and the methamphetamine that they're using is even more hardcore than it was 1015 years ago. And so to say, here's a ticket, this is going to help you get better, is just is an unmitigated disaster, and they the relationship that they have with their drugs, and I've never been an addict. And that's why we can talk about the programs that I think are going to be successful in the future. But they have a relationship with drugs that is more important than their children. They'll give up time and custody of their children to be with their drug of choice, heroin or methamphetamine. So without some type of compelling force, like our amazing parole and probation officers, without alcohol and drug counselors that have somewhat of a strength behind their, their method, then they're not going to they're they're not going to seek treatment. And the data is clear out of the 1826 tickets only 55 have called. And so that's a fairly significant number of people that have not called. So I

Michael Sipe: 19:37

guess that leads us to the most obvious question here is, you know, what are your thoughts on how maybe we can fix this as a as a state? How can we address all these interlocking problems? And, you know, maybe, maybe a way you can chat about it is what are some of the things that you're seeing that actually work that make a difference?

Unknown: 19:58

Yeah, and I would like to clarify that I I'm a huge fan of the Deschutes County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Nelson runs tremendous organization I've never seen interagency cooperation quite like I have in the chute Valley, most of my all my experience has been informed by what I'm seeing in the valley between Salem and Portland. So when I talk about these issues, I'm not talking necessarily about the shoots County, because I am impressed with a lot of the things that the shoots county is doing currently. And what they have is a behavioral health program. That is, I think, a model for the rest of the state to follow. So they have stabilization centers, with professionals that you can bring those who are intoxicated, addicted suffering from mental illness, and they can get them on a path to treatment centers in in addiction specialists. And they can stay there for a little while to sober up enough to actually make rational decisions as to their treatment, and what might be the best medical remedy for them to get them off the streets. And so that's important, that's a 24/7 operation and with people who are unsheltered because of addiction, or mental health issues, the window, the opportunity to help them out is going to shut very fast in my open for 15 minutes at three o'clock in the morning, and we have to be prepared to get them to the stabilization center. And then the stabilization center can take that success further on down the road. A lot of areas in Oregon don't have that. They don't have the stabilization center. So the shoots kind of behavioral health in the Deschutes. County Sheriff's Office in coordination with the city agencies and the state police. You have a great law enforcement team here that is top top of the the wrong as far as professionalism dealing with people who are in crisis and mental health issues. I would like to say that about Deschutes County specifically.

Michael Sipe: 21:54

Well, yeah, and I think that if I recall, the sheriff's department actually invest quite a bit in that stabilization center. I think it's a half a million dollars a year or something that that out of out of their operating budget, I think that they put into it don't quote me on those numbers. But by the it's like, it's not changed. I mean, it's a it's a chunk that is being invested in this by the sheriff.

Unknown: 22:17

Yeah, and I'm not on the sheriff's campaign team. But if I was very impressed with this organization, so yes, that's a very, it's an expensive, it's an expensive program, and they and issues kind of keeps it up and running. And it's a huge benefit for the cops on the street.

Michael Sipe: 22:34

So what else do you see? You know, obviously, that, that ability to respond quickly and properly and, and, and well, matters? What other kinds of things have you seen that work that we might look to implement? Not only here and in the shoots County, but but maybe across the state?

Unknown: 22:56

Yeah, I do like Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion programs model, like Marion County's model. Deschutes County does have ideal options, which is an opportunity for people who are certified alcohol and drug counselors, and they can get addicts. People have mental illness in front of a doctor, an MD or a PhD, within the hour. And so it's it's really critical pharmaceuticals have a huge role in mental health issues specifically. And then also, they're very ideal options. The medical doctors are very aggressive with methamphetamine, addiction protocols and medicating for methamphetamine, which is kind of a revolutionary concept and from what I understand, in the medical community, so Josh Lehrer, who is one of the outreach coordinators for ideal options. He was our original Marion County Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion Navigator, and Josh has a great story. He was in prison for about 10 years for drug and weapons offenses. He's been he was meth addicts use of meth addicts, but he's on the other side of recovery. He runs a street outreach program, be bold ministries, and he's a part of ideal options. And he is able to build rapport with people much faster than I can be in in uniform. And having having never suffered from an addiction like methamphetamine or heroin. So those getting those type of lived experienced professionals into the mix early, despite their their prior felonies, despite their their time in the state. Those are who we need out there to grab and get that hook into people to get them off the streets and into places like the stabilization center, but also in coordination with law enforcement and the courts and the parole and probation officers. So it's this huge effective team that if If integrated properly is very, very powerful to bring somebody back into a life of sobriety. And that's pretty amazing. And I think, you know, 110 takes away a lot of that, that power and the influence. So the best thing that we can do is find the Josh layers and the hate crap SIRs of the world and get them on the streets and get them in front of people customer facing. So we, as police officers can, can continue them down the line if need be.

Michael Sipe: 25:31

Very good. I'm actually from our conversation and lunch. I'm actually working on just that. Because I see that as a really, really powerful tool. As we wrap up our conversation today. You probably opened up a lot of questions for people. One question I want to ask you, because use the phrase. And before we finish, I just like to ask you to explain the term you used about about diversion. So tell us a little bit about that.

Unknown: 26:00

As far as the Law Enforcement Assisted Diversion programs, yeah, the assisted diversion program you mentioned. Yeah, so that is if I arrest somebody for when methamphetamine was a was a felony. And again, ballot measure 110 is impacted lead programs, then the DHS office would hold on to that ticket, or that probable cause statement, until successful completion of the programs that were set forth by the lead programs. And so they're plugged into their certified alcohol and drug counselors. And so there is no criminal justice interface. If they've fulfilled the obligations per that CDC that has lived experience, and they have a workload, they go on the streets, and they grab the people that take them to appointments in the day make them get to where they need to be. And if not, if they are not that they're resistant to the protocols, then the C felony can then be filed at the DHS office and arrests can be made. And we can do it through prolonged probation. So it's a it's an earlier intervention prior to a conviction. So we're not looking for downward or dispositional departures upon conviction, it saves the expensive part of the criminal justice system, for those who are just most resistant to treatment.

Michael Sipe: 27:23

Nice. Thanks. Well, look, as we wrap up today, how can people find out more about this? Obviously, there's probably a ton of questions. And as you mentioned, any one of these topics we could go all day on? How can people learn more? This is a topic that's that's really top of mind. For a lot of people right now. Where can people go to find out more about the causes and potential remedies for homelessness, addiction, mental illness, and, and then maybe you've got some suggestions for how we as ordinary citizens can get involved in help.

Unknown: 27:57

Yeah, great. I, you know, I came to Central Oregon, and I want to be very, very accessible to everybody that is here in this area. And so if there's something I said that you are passionately in disagreement with, and give me a call, so we can sit down and have a cup of coffee and talk about it. And you can explain your point of view. And I can maybe further explain mine, because these topics elicit a lot of emotion. And I like those conversations. And we need to have those conversations, but we need to have it over coffee and and with an understanding that we may never get to the point where we're in agreement of each other. Sometimes as leaders, we have a sacred obligation to disappoint, which is this is my point of view. And this is your point of view, but at least we can talk about it. And then my recommendation for getting involved is, is please donate to the nonprofits that have programs to help the unsheltered. It does the opposite of good when it feels good to to hand money out to people alongside the streets, but oftentimes that that money goes to feed their addiction and further them down the unsheltered and into further mental health crisis. And then Central Oregon. We have shepherd's house we have Bethlehem in my favorite is Casa of Central Oregon. You can CASA is a court appointed special attorney. And so if you're a casa then you help children get through court processes if their parents are somehow in the court system or if that child is a victim of some type of child crime. So causes are critically important to the area but if you can't don't have you're not in a position to be accosted. Then they take donations and those donations go directly to the children that are impacted by you know the effects of drug abuse. The effects of of poverty. And then that is kind of the, for me the the generational solution is focusing our funds on the children. You know, from from the United States spends a very low amount of its GDP on on child poverty, less than 1%. Or, you know, countries like France spend 3%, which is a significant per capita amount, considering our GDP in the United States. So anytime I can focus on the children, I know that, you know, it's planting the tree now, and you're going to enjoy the shade later. But but don't don't hand it out on the streets, give it to organizations that are helping, the strategic problem, and not just what feels good.

Michael Sipe: 30:42

Jason, this has been great. It's, it's really been terrific having you on the show. I've been looking forward to our talk, ever since we had lunch. And I think my man, there's so many takeaways out of this. I think. I think one this issue that you just finished up with in terms of where to focus resources and and and breaking the generational chains and working with the kids is certainly near and dear to my heart. So I appreciate your time and your message today. Thanks for your service in the military. Thanks for your service on I don't know whether maybe this is to television but the mean streets of Salem the mean streets of Black Butte now

Unknown: 31:26

it's not that bad.

Michael Sipe: 31:28

I'm thrilled that you're over here and and you're just a tremendous resource of knowledge and, and inspiration as well. So thanks for that. And thanks for being my guest today has been Jason Ben meter. I hope you have enjoyed his insights as much as I have. Thanks for tuning in.

Narrator: 31:49

Thanks for listening to cascade views with Michael SIPE. To find out more about Mike the upcoming election. The key issues he's focused on and his campaign to represent Central Oregon and Salem as a state representative. Visit www dot a voice for Central oregon.com that's www dot a voice for Central oregon.com You can get your own copy of Michael SIPE best selling book the Avada principle@amazon.com. And finally, please vote in the upcoming election. Your Voice Matters